The MPI Account: Is This Our Golden Ticket (Or Just A Sketchy Indexed Universal Life Insurance Policy)?

An MPI (Maximum Premium Indexing) account is a combination of life insurance and a retirement plan. It’s pitched as having the ability to compound your wealth at a higher-than-average rate, while also protecting your principal, eventually providing long-term tax-free retirement income, and then passing on the wealth tax-free to your heirs. Is it too good to be true? That’s what I’ve endeavored to find out.

The MPI Account

In this post, I am going to explain the basics of the MPI plan. I will also run through how MPI accounts work and the pros and cons of the MPI account. Then I’ll discuss what the issues are with IULs and how MPI proposes to solve those issues.

I’ll be upfront and say that I loved the idea of this product. So much so that I decided to apply for a plan, and also analyze it as best I could, to see if it could actually deliver on its promises. Sooooo…..

In the near future, I am going to create a companion post, where I walk you through the extensive vetting I did of the plan for my own purposes.

Not only will I share what I learned, but I also share a recorded conversation of me reviewing the plan with the creator, Curtis Ray, along with an additional follow-up Q&A I did with him via many emails. And of course, I’ll share the accompanying data as well!

Spoiler alert!! So far in my research, I think the MPI Plan can potentially deliver on its promises, given reasonable market conditions (just like all investments).

But I will agree with the critics (of both MPI and indexed universal life insurance), in that these plans are complicated, so you should do your homework and make sure you know what you are getting yourself into (which is basically a long term commitment to follow through on the plan you create).

I’m still doing my homework and currently waiting on some answers before I can definitively decide on whether this plan is right for me.


Side note: I want to say that I don’t believe complicated is bad. In fact, I think the whole “dumbing things down so people are more likely to participate” is bullshit. The old saying, “If it were easy, everyone would do it” applies to executing good financial decisions. Often the easy route doesn’t produce the best returns. (or puts more money in other people’s pockets than your own).

When it comes to money I think everyone should “adult up,” do the math and never rely on some easy route spoon-fed to you. And if you don’t have the time or inclination to get serious about your life savings, then pay someone to do it for you. It’s that important. Ok, getting off my soapbox now.


A little background before we get into the weeds…

How did I find MPI ?

I go on podcasts as a guest to talk about money, business, and investing. But before I go on a show, I’ll usually listen to a couple of episodes to get a feel for the show. Well, one of those episodes I listened too, just so happened to feature Curtis Ray as a guest.

Curtis talked about the many problems with conventional retirement planning. I won’t get into what those are in this post, but I can say that it was like he had been reading my mind. I had never really heard anyone else (other than myself) talk about these problems. I was obviously intrigued to hear more.

He went on to explain that he had created the MPI plan as a solution to these problems. He has even written a book that both explains the problems and then lays out why MPI is the solution. It’s called The Lost Science of Compound Interest.

I’ll admit that the book is really a very comprehensive sales brochure for MPI, but, the information in there is still very good. And at the very least, it gives you a lot to ponder about your retirement planning.

So who the hell is Curtis Ray?

The MPI plan was designed by Curtis Ray, founder of Suncor Financial. Prior to designing the MPI plan and starting Suncore to sell his product, he owned a granite countertop business. (Wait, what?). Yeah…weird.

Not that granite is weird, but it’s a unique career change. You can learn all about it in his book (or on that podcast I mentioned above).

(Side note: I personally believe that people can reinvent themselves, and if you can “invent yourself” successfully multiple times, you are probably pretty smart. Go, Curtis!)

Anyway, after his first career hit a wall, he experienced some financial setbacks. At which point he became very interested in “capital preservation” and, of course, still growing that capital and potentially passing some of it on.

So, Curtis 2.0 decided to try and invent an incredibly optimal, yet safer than average, retirement plan. Initially, he developed this plan to invest his own retirement savings. Later, it became his next career.

Curtis’s goal was to take all the best parts of the different investment assets classes (stocks, real estate, insurance) then combine them together to take peak advantage of the actual science behind compound interest.

The product he designed is a retirement plan that utilizes a type of indexed universal life insurance (IUL) provided by Mutual of Omaha (among a few other insurance companies). It is administered in such a way that it’s relatively safe, achieves consistent returns protected from market downturns, delivers ample tax-free retirement income, then finally passes on a nice, tax-free inheritance to your heirs. I mean…hey…why not?!?

He then opened Suncore Financial to sell his “invention” to you and me. So, in essence, Suncor is your insurance broker, but a unique one at that. You apply for the life insurance policy you need through Suncore, and they provide ongoing support to ensure the necessary steps are taken, down the road, to keep the plan functioning as designed.

I should also mention that Curtis is not the only person in the world to think of this kind of thing. BUT, his specific recipe is his own. Apparently, it’s even patent-pending.

Related Posts:

What is an MPI Account?

MPI stands for Maximum Premium Indexing, which is a financial strategy that “could generate lots of money for you” (in lamens terms that is…haha!). But more specifically, it’s a combination approach that provides life insurance and acts as a retirement planning vehicle at the same time.

MPI basically takes the features of an indexed universal life insurance contract and attempts to bolster them, and also create new benefits from them. Curtis sometimes calls it IUL 2.0. See him explain it here.


Actually, the very idea of combining life insurance and investing is something many financial “experts” say you shouldn’t do. But conventional wisdom isn’t always good wisdom. Often it’s just easy to repeat because so many people back it up that you won’t look bad if it underperforms!

As mentioned above, MPI accounts can (theoretically): provide you with a relatively safe way to achieve consistent returns protected from market downturns, deliver ample tax-free retirement income, and then finally pass on a nice tax-free inheritance to your heirs…(theoretically).

That being said, there is some controversy around IULs in that they can potentially be a dangerous way to invest your money. (And this is actually very true, more on this later…)

The selling points of MPI from an investment perspective

MPI accounts work by using a mixed approach of stock market growth, leverage, and capital preservation. But let’s break it down a bit more.

Security

An MPI secure compound interest account grows in line with the S&P500 index. However, the MPI account (via the terms of the IUL) has a floor of 0%, which means that even if the S&P500 crashes -30% in one year, you won’t lose anything!

You do give something up for that protection against market downturns though: it’s limited upside is capped at 10% (more on this below). And for clarity, because the plan comes with annual fees you still “lose money.” But the same is true for traditionally managed accounts. When your account loses money, your money manager still takes their fees.

Growth

As mentioned above, the growth of your cash account grows in line with the S&P. It’s limited on the downside to 0%, but is capped on the upside at 10%. This means that if the S&P500 returns 8%, your account value will go up by 8%. If the S&P goes up 20% you only get…10%.

Historically, the S&P500 has returned around 10% per year for its investors (with reinvested dividends). But when factoring in the 0% floor and 10% cap, MPI has averaged about 7% over the last 25 years, according to Curtis.

Not bad when considering capital preservation security. And certainly better than CDs, Bonds, and other more secure investments. But also, more importantly, the historic 10% of the S&P comes with HUGE peaks and valleys.

Curtis claims his math shows that with protection from the many years of having to climb out of those valleys, the 7% return actually produces more money. And depending on when you get in and out of the market in your lifetime, it could be a good clip more money.

Then you add on the leverage of the RELOC…Bonus!

Leverage

Within the MPI, there’s a feature called the RELOC or “Retirement Equity Line Of Credit.” This RELOC, or participating loan, lets you access the insurance company’s money with relatively low-interest rates (around 4%).

Using this RELOC, MPI holders have the potential to supercharge their returns in the stock market by an extra 2-3% every year, by borrowing from the loan side of the plan and reinvesting that money into the savings side of the plan.

The flip side of course is that in 0% years, any RELOC money is hurting your account balance. But, on average, over the last 20 years, this approach has added extra points to your growth.

A huge positive point with the RELOC that you need to understand, is that the money you borrow from your plan not only requires no qualification or application (because it’s collateralized by the saving account), it also has no ongoing payments!!!! This fact is one of the lynchpins of why the MPI plan can work so well.

Instead of you making any ongoing payments, the insurance company keeps an ongoing tally of your interest, and settles up your loan when you die out of your death benefits proceeds. This is an f’ing amazing feature of the MPI plan. (It also creates a third side of the MPI plan we’ll look at later, which Curtis calls Pure Compounding.)

A video summary for you….


The selling points of MPI from a retirement perspective

Tax-free growth of funds inside the savings account

Like your 401ks and IRS, the growth of your money in the savings account is tax-free per IRS tax code. So while you put your money into the plan after it’s taxed, it grows tax-free (like a 401k).

Tax-free retirement income

The MPI plan offers tax-free retirement income. The reason it can do this is that the money that it puts in your bank account, upon retirement, comes from the loan side of the plan. AKA the RELOC.

Much like when you get money out of your house or investment property via a refi, these proceeds are not income because they are technically borrowed money.

And again, because the RELOC does not require any monthly payment while you are alive, it can actually serve as an ongoing source of “income” (as long as your cash balance remains positive).

Now, in order for this to work out as planned, the market needs to do its job, and you need to keep feeding and managing the plan as you initially set out to do. So an MPI plan is a commitment on your part.

If you bail early, it will likely be a bad result.

Asset Protection

Life insurance products have significant protection from lawsuits, much like 401k and IRA accounts do. Curtis indicates that they have even greater protection.

Tax-Free death benefits pass on to your heirs

If the MPI plan plays out as designed through all your living years, and doesn’t lapse for any reason, the initial life insurance amount, plus any remaining cash balance, pays out to your beneficiaries tax-free.

However, there is a cap on the amount that can transfer tax-free. According to Nerdwallet, the cap on that is currently 11.7 million.

Other selling points of the MPI plan

  • Living Benefits: You can take an advance on the life insurance to pay for chronic or terminal illness care. Meaning, if you’re going to be dying soon anyway, they give you some of the money to pay for those related expenses. That’s nice of them!
  • Low Expenses: In the long run, because the expenses of the plan decrease over time, the cumulative expenses relative to account value are very low compared to traditional money management. (This does not include the cost of the insurance however.)
  • No Early Withdrawal Penalties: This is “sort of” true. You can borrow money out of the plan and there are no penalties. But you can’t just cancel the plan and take the cash value without penalty until year 15. And because you paid for insurance along the way, that will have eaten up a chunk of your cash. More on this later.
  • Permanent Life Insurance: As long as the policy remains in good standing, you will have a permanent life insurance amount to pass on to your heirs. That said, the cost you pay for the insurance goes up every year. The idea is that the account growth more then covers that increased cost, while also delivering on all the other promises.

All these benefits are outlined in this video…


Is the MPI account technically a “retirement” plan?

Actually, no. MPI is not a “retirement plan” officially. It’s a life insurance policy that is designed to also help you save and grow money for your retirement.

But while it’s technically not a retirement plan, it has many of the same benefits, because the tax-related benefit of life insurance offers similar advantages to “retirement plans.”

How does it differ from a traditional 401k or Roth 401k?

You might be wondering at this point, “How does an MPI plan differ from a traditional Roth IRA or 401k?” Here are some similarities and differences.

Similarities

  • Your money inside the plan grows tax free.
  • Like a Roth IRA or Roth 401K, your retirment distributions can be tax free. Though the reason why the are tax free are not the same as a retirement plan.
  • Also like a Roth IRA or Roth 401K, your money goes in after tax.
  • Like regular retirement accounts, the money inside your plan is far more protected from lawsuits than money in your regular accounts.

Differences

  • MPI account is guaranteed not to lose principle due to the 0% floor. If you have market investments in your 401k and the market tumbles, the value of your 401k will similarly go down.
  • You don’t make your own investment choices in MPI. Your money is tracked with the S&P index. In self directed IRAs and 401Ks, you can invest in whatever you want. Or attach a manager to do it for you.
  • IRAs and 401ks require you to hit age 60 before being able to withdraw anything without penalty. With an MPI account, you don’t suffer any penalties if you withdraw early. So, if you are planning on an early retirement it can work better for you.
  • Traditional IRA and Traditional 401K withrawals are taxed, while MPI retirement income is not.
  • Retirement accounts don’t allow for margin, so you can’t get any investing leverage in a retirement account.
  • If your traditional retirement accounts are professionally managed, you will pay far more fees in the long run over an MPI account.

How does the MPI Plan actually function?

First and foremost, the MPI plan is a specially designed and specifically administered indexed universal life insurance policy from Mutual of Omaha (but I think they use a few other carriers as well).

IUL is a flavor of permanent life insurance that has both a life insurance component and also a savings account, whose growth is tied to some kind of index (with the MPI, this index is the S&P500).

Side note: most people, including me, think of this kind of setup as “whole” life insurance. But IUL is technically much different than whole life, even though it too offers a combo life insurance and savings account.

What kind of IUL is the MPI Plan built on?

It’s called a “Max Funded Option B” IUL. This is important because this vehicle not only comes with some nice benefits out of the box, it allows for the “extra” features of MPI to exist. If you want more details about this, watch this video.


More about what “Max Funded” and “Option B” means

It’s kinda complicated, but the net result is that that the max funded IULs allow for you to put the maximum amount of money into the plan, while having the least amount of insurance.

This keeps the cost of the insurance as low as possible, so more of your money can compound and then also be available for the tax-free withdraws in retirement.

Essentially, the IUL is more designed to provide living benefits than death benefits. Here is a video from another insurance guy that explains it pretty well.


The whole option B thing means that your death benefit can increase over time. So while your “life insurance amount” is always the same, the net cash value of your account grows and gets tacked on to your life insurance amount, which thereby increases your “death benefit” when you die.

Now option A means your benefits stay the same, even though your net cash value is still increasing. What this means is that the life insurance amount goes down along with its costs.

Starting the plan out as option B when you are working and then switching it to option A when you are retiring is actually a potentially good strategy. Curtis eventually mentioned this to me as I started really doing the math and testing his claims about the sustainability of the “perpetual tax-free retirement income that adjusts for inflation.”

Watch this video for some more detail on A vs B.


More about the downside “protection”

Your money (or principal) is kept “safe” with the MPI plan, due to the 0% floor offered by the IUL. As I explained, this means that even if the stock market drops, the most you’ll lose is … 0% (aka nothing). While that is true, the flip side is that your growth is capped to 10%. So limited downside and limited upside.

But beyond that, the other HUGE caveat is that the life insurance itself costs money, and the cost of it goes up every year. And usually, this cost comes out of your cash value.

So in years, you are limited to that 0%, you actually DO lose money. But, you get life insurance, so you can look at it a couple of ways. But this is a critical factor of the plan’s long-term success, as you will see.

The design of the plan intends that your compound returns are so good that they easily cover the increasing cost of insurance.

That’s the idea at least. If that doesn’t happen in practice though, all your money can evaporate. That is the big danger with IULs. More on that below.

Beyond the cost of the insurance, there are fees that come with the plan too. So that would contribute to you actually “losing money” in a year where you were at 0% return. Of course, you pay fees when you have financial institutions manage your money too, so there’s that.

However, MPI fees actually decrease over time, so the net fees of the plan over many years end up being much lower than regular money management fees. Bonus for MPI!

What is the “RELOC”

RELOC is a Curtis term that stands for Retirement Equity Line of Credit. Basically, whatever the amount is in the savings side of your plan (AKA Cash Value), you can borrow against it very easily, and pay a fairly low rate. Currently, it’s 4% and is capped at 6%.

The MPI plan uses this RELOC for two specific purposes outlined below. This loan requires no application or approval screening because it is collateralized by your cash value.

And again, this loan does not require any ongoing payments to make on the principal or interest. That is a really important point because if you had to make monthly payments, the whole system wouldn’t work.

Instead, the insurance company keeps a running tally of your interest and settles up your account when you die out of your death benefit. Pretty great!

RELOC is used for reinvesting in the savings account

This is the leverage that Curtis discusses as part of his plan. The MPI plan proposes that you borrow against your existing cash value and then send the money right back into the chasing side of your plan. This creates leverage because you are now investing the insurance company’s money.

The MPI plan basically requires you to do this for its tenability. While you don’t have to “max fund” your plan every year, you really need to in order for it to produce enough return to cover the cost of insurance as you get older.

So, let’s say you are paying 4% interest on the loan, but earning on average 6-7% return on the money in the savings side of the plan. Thereby creating an interest spread of 2-3% on average. (I say on average because in 0% years you are losing money with your leverage.)

This 2-3% may not sound like much, but over time it can add up to a ton of extra compound return! And, as I indicated above, it is important for the plan to remain stable. The more cash value your plan has, the better chance it has of delivering on its promises.

RELOC is used for Retirement Income

Now eventually, once you get to the retirement stage of the plan, you start to borrow even more money via the RELOC to fund your retirement years.

Even though you have already been borrowing for reinvesting, the hope is that the compounded returns have produced enough overall cash value, so you can borrow even more to cover your retirement.

And because it’s borrowed money that you are putting into your bank account every month, it’s tax-free!

Unfortunately, this is where my own tinkering with the math behind the MPI plan exposed the biggest concerns. (More on that in my upcoming post).

How much money do you need to invest?

You decide how much you want to invest, and it’s ultimately based on how much you want in retirement income. You can use The MPI Calculator to get an idea of how a plan can work for your budget.

I should point out that it’s also limited to how much life insurance you can qualify for (as well as how much you can afford to put in…obviously!)

Basically, because MPI is designed to maximize compounding, the more time you have to compound, the less money you’ll need to invest. But that’s sort of true with all types of investing.

That said, if you are older (like me), you can still jump in, but they recommend you drop in a lump sum to start. Here is a screengrab of the calculator for the plan I applied for.

Now, it’s incredibly important for me to point out that you want to design your plan around an amount of money you can truly commit to putting in on an ongoing basis. And there is a reason for this.

Ultimately, it’s because the plan can implode (you lose all the money you put in, all of your promised retirement income, and all of your death benefit) if you don’t “feed” the plan as designed. I know that sounds complicated…and it is.

Of course, it doesn’t have to be if you do what you commit to doing (in terms of ongoing contribution). But if you stray, figuring out how, why and when it could implode would be tough for the average person (that doesn’t like math).

Part of the reason for this is that while the plan doesn’t have to be “max funded” every year, it remains less likely to fail if it is. But max funding it out of pocket is not really how it’s meant to work.

If you only get a plan that you can afford to max fund out of pocket, you don’t get any leverage. And without the leverage, you don’t get the “extra growth” on your investable funds. Thereby reducing overall performance on your money.

Curtis recommends you fund at least 10% of the capacity every year and then fill the 90% gap with the RELOC loan (below).

What can go wrong with the MPI Plan?

I think I’ve already said it, but the long-short of what can go wrong is that you can lose all your money. Technically, you can lose all your money in any kind of investment, but it would happen for different reasons with a IUL.

Ultimately, I think it’s more likely you could lose ALL your money with a IUL, than if your money were in a regular retirement account or real estate. But you can still lose a lot with stocks and real estate if all goes to hell.

The cost of insurance outpaces plan growth

One way it happens is that the increased insurance cost gets so high that it’s not able to be paid by the cash value nor out of your packet, and then the plan lapses. Once the plan lapses, literally everything evaporates. All the money you put in and all death benefit disappears. It’s like you never even had an MPI plan.

This can happen in a few ways for different reasons…but it’s probably more likely to happen in the later years as the insurance gets really expensive.

“How expensive can it get,” you to ask?

Well, I’m currently looking at a plan that would put 6 million of life insurance on my wife. This amount of insurance allows me a sizable plan capacity of 251K per year.

Mutual of Omaha (MOO) provided me with a few spreadsheets mapping out the fees, insurance costs, and potential cash value growth, to review. Here are how the costs go up as my wife ages. (This is for a “Female, Age 41, Preferred Plus Non-Tobacco” rating by the way.)

  • 50 years old – $3,546/year
  • 60 years old – $9,085/year
  • 70 years old – $22,771/year
  • 80 years old – $76,983/year
  • 90 years old – $326,631/year
  • 100 years old – $835,431/year
  • 110 years old – $1,499,072/year

So as you can see, keeping up with the insurance cost through age 70 is probably doable, but 80, 90, and 100 is a lot. And if you happen to live that long, you might lose your retirement nest egg when you need it most. But again, that could be the case with all retirement plans.

Now, here is what exacerbates the problem. Once you retire, you are not putting any of your own cash into the plan anymore, AND you are cannibalizing the RELOC for retirement. So, there is less to grow and eventually less money in the plan to cover the expensive insurance costs.

The market has many years in a row of losses

Many years of market losses will cause the same problem as above but could cause it to happen earlier. The benefit of having to step in and cover the insurance out of pocket earlier on is that it’s probably still relatively cheap and you can do it.

But the longer the market has years that produce your “0% floor” returns, the more likely it will implode. Actually, by MOOs own calculation, it would implode after 7 years of 0% returns.

Part of the reason it could happen that quickly is that MOO reserves the right to increase the insurance cost under certain market conditions. Under extreme conditions, the insurance cost gets very high and implodes even quicker.

However, it would be very unlikely for the market to have multiple down years in a row. Even the great depression was only about 3 declining years in a row.

How can you figure out when or why it may implode?

You can figure this out a couple of ways. you can rely on the word of Curtis and Suncore, or you can do your own math using estimated numbers MOO will provide for you, from which you extract additional calculations.

Now don’t get me wrong, I believe that Curtis is totally legit and that he fully believes in this product. So he’s not going to give you misleading information…and he has been very responsive and clear about his thoughts with me so far. But he also doesn’t want to make it sound bad in any way, so to get the full picture I think you should do your own math.

That said doing your own math on this product is somewhat complicated, so I can’t cover that in this post. However…

I will be creating a post that shows how I have vetted the MPI plan and will walk you through my math and the results.

Once I get that done, I will link to it here.

Some closing thoughts about the MPI Account

With an MPI account, you can take advantage of stock market returns AND leverage, with the added benefit of security. Buuuttttt, like with other investment products, MPI accounts have their own positives and negatives.

A summary of Pros & Cons

As usual, you need to look at the pros and cons and weigh them against your goals. Here are some of the pros and cons of MPI accounts:

Pros

  • You can take advantage of stock market returns AND leverage, with the added benefit of security.
  • Has most of the beneifts of a Roth account, but less of the negatives.
  • If the stock market crashes, you won’t lose much money at all due to the floor of 0%.
  • Using the MPI investment strategy, you have the potential to receive retirment income that is 3-4x higher than a traditional or Roth IRA account.
  • This is a pro and a con: You need to commit to a plan and stick to it. Or you could lose a lot, if not all, of what you put in. But, if you make the commitment, you’ll save more money overall and potentially come out very rosy in the end.

Cons

  • Its complicated, and if you dont take the time to undertand how it works, you could lose a lot of your money.
  • Because it requires a long term commitment, if you suddenly decide you have to pull out, it’s likely you’ll lose a lot of money.
  • The longer you live, the more the insurance costs go up, and the more the plan is in jepordy. But again, longevity hurts all retirement plans. (Just die already…geez!)
  • In order to have an MPI plan, you have to qualify for the life insurance. And beyond just qualifing, if you don’t qualify for the “best health rating,” your plan won’t perform as optimally. Why? Because the insurance is then more expensive.

More about Curtis and the Suncore’s commitment during my application process.

I want to point out that, so far, Curtis and Suncore have been very accommodating to all of my questions (and there have been many!).

I also asked if I could record the conversation we had after I reviewed the first round of numbers that MOO gave me. Curtis said yes and is going to let me share that (when I get to doing that post).

Curtis has also answered lots of follow-up questions via email, as I pick away at the additional calculations I have received from MOO.

That is all to say that he really tries hard to back up his claims. But I am still throwing questions at him, so we’ll see if he can get me comfortable enough to execute the plan I have applied for.

Actually, we are still in the application process for the insurance, and that is a lot of work in and of itself! (My wife is literally on the phone with them right now…haha!)

Conclusion

An MPI account is a type of revamped indexed universal life insurance which has the power to build your wealth tremendously. MPI accounts work based on three key concepts:

  • Growth – via the S&P500 index (around 6-8% per year)
  • Leverage – via the RELOC / participating loan (around 2-3% extra per year)
  • Security – via the limited downside that such life insurance policies can provide (a 0% floor)

On the con side, if you are unable to fund the premiums for your MPI account, this plan could die a quick death. That is the big controversy in the mixing of insurance and investments. But if you are careful in the structuring of your plans, you should be able to avert such issues.

So…there you have it! Everything you need to know about the MPI account. Though controversial, at the end of the day, whether an investment is right for you all depends on your own financial situation. And if you DO decide to take advantage of the MPI investing plan, who knows? Maybe one day you’ll sit back and think, “Damn, I wish I had done that sooner!”

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